Ep.6 Kurtis Hanni | Challenging Personal Finance Taboos and Fostering Financial Mindsets

Andres Sanchez  [00:00:00]:

Welcome back to the Virtual Ventures Podcast. I am your host, Andres Sanchez, and today I have the pleasure of talking with Kurtis Hanni. Kurtis Hanni is the author of the Frameworks and Finance newsletter, which goes out to over 20,000 subscribers. He just mentioned that to me before we hopped on. So I want to say congratulations to you, Kurtis, on crossing that milestone. And I'm extremely excited to have you here and get to really chat and learn a little bit more. This is also a selfish interview for me. I love finance and personal finance. So I'm interested to hear what you have to say from that perspective. And something I always forget to do is like, subscribe, comment, follow, do all that good stuff for me. Help me continue to grow and get Kurtis's story out there. So, Kurtis, thanks for coming on. Nice to meet you.

Kurtis  [00:00:51]:

Yeah, good to be on this conversation. It's a little bit weird hearing you say 20,000, because that literally just happened today. And so every milestone is like turning over a new leaf. It's kind of fun.

Andres Sanchez  [00:01:05]:

That is awesome. Well, I'm happy to be able to be here with you today and inaugurate that 20,000 with an episode. So I think that's really cool. But I think an easy way to start is I just like to learn a little bit more about you.

Kurtis  [00:01:20]:

Yeah. So I went to college accounting background. And once I graduated college, I kind of went the traditional, I guess, maybe a little bit nontraditional, as I chose not to go to CPA firm. And I went to big to just a big accounting or sorry, a big company in their accounting department. And when I did that, I realized pretty quickly in that job that I enjoyed more than just the accounting aspect of stuff. And so I went to a smaller company and became the CFO of that smaller company. And so that was kind of my career and I was enjoying that. I really enjoy the aspect of kind of being at small to medium businesses and being involved in a lot of different elements of the business. And then about COVID happened. And then about a year and a half ago, I decided, hey, I'm going to start a podcast because I enjoy talking about personal finance, business finance. I enjoy these topics. So let me just share. And then I realized with podcasts, it's hard to get traction because there's really no easy way to distribute. And so I started on Twitter and Twitter, I was just kind of sharing everything that I've learned through the years. And then that turned into my email newsletter, Frameworks and Finance, which has now turned into me doing fractional CFO work, kind of going with my day job. And so it's been a fun journey and something I didn't expect, but I've just kind of followed wherever the passion has been. I've followed wherever the traction has been, and I'm just trying to figure things out as I go.

Andres Sanchez  [00:03:21]:

That's amazing. And one thing that you've mentioned and I want some more clarity on, what is this fractional CFO work sounds really cool. I'd love to kind of learn a little more about that.

Kurtis  [00:03:32]:

Yeah, so the reality is, most small businesses, you don't really have to have necessarily a CFO level person until you're 1520 30 million in revenue. But businesses before that point have significant needs that are similar to what a CFO would provide. You just aren't making enough money at that point to be able to justify hiring someone at that level. So fractional CFO work is saying, hey, I have the experience and background that can benefit you, but I'm only going to work for you a couple of hours a week or whenever you need it, project basis. And so it allows businesses that are earlier in their journey to get expert level advice and really only get that stuff that honestly, truly is the value, delivering stuff at a much earlier phase than they normally would have. And so I just use my expertise or use my background in ten plus years as a CFO and help them kind of navigate those areas that they don't know or don't have exposure to. Nice.

Andres Sanchez  [00:04:56]:

That's super cool and a really useful tool for startups. So I love that from that perspective. And it's a way for you to continue to grow and learn more as you get to get involved with a ton of these businesses. So that's awesome. I guess we can start at the core. You said Twitter is like your main growth engine. I just had your buddy Clint on Sunday, his episode will be coming out next week. So we kind of dove in on how to grow on Twitter, how that kind of journey was. I'd love to hear from your perspective how growing on Twitter was and how it's been a growth engine for you on the newsletter and your personal brand.

Kurtis  [00:05:39]:

Yeah, so Twitter for me was always a consumption thing. And I've been on Twitter since, I think, 2009, and it was always I come here to get the news, I just take in kind of the different news sources. I try and keep up with what's going on in the world. And then in I think it was, let's see, was that 2018 or 2019 time frame? I guess it doesn't really matter, right? Is I took a break from all of social media, and so I took a break from Twitter. I was not on Twitter for probably two years ish and when I started my podcast, I said, I have to find a way to promote this. How do I want that to look like? What do I want that to look like? And Twitter was the platform that I enjoyed the most, just personally. And so I made the decision, okay, I'm going to hop back on Twitter. But I'd never been on twitter as someone who was creating, it had always been someone who was just consuming stuff. So I was basically starting from zero. I had less than 200 followers that were all just family and friends. And so I very quickly realized I had no idea how to grow. And so I got into personal finance circles, just kind of interacted with people, but I still was not posting that regularly, and I still was not growing. And so through that process, I started just DMing people that I saw in the comments, along with the kind of big influencers at the time that I was commenting on. And actually one of those people was Clint, and I don't know if he talked about this at all, but it was me and him realized we had such similar backgrounds, we had similar desires to grow. We were both doing a podcast, so we kind of connected on those things. And through that I found some other groups, some other people. And it was just kind of like a chain of connections that then resulted in me finding groups that were doing the same thing as me trying to grow. And then it was through that that I realized this is a full time job, trying to grow on this social platform. I got to comment every single morning on people's stuff because that's how I get seen. I got to produce all this content. I got to figure out all these specific things. And over a period of time, what I came to realize, and I'm not the first person, I won't be the last person, but Twitter, when it comes down to it, is a networking application because it's building relationships with people. And when you build relationships, people then comment. They look for your stuff, that then deepens it, but then that also provides traction for other people seeing your stuff, because those circles of influence then help spread you out to other people. And so I kind of learned how to play the game of growth, slowly but surely. Gaining followers. It took me probably three to four months at minimum, to get to 1000 followers. Another three months to get to 4000. And I was at, let's see, I guess December 2021. I broke 4000 followers on December 31 because I'd, like, made that my goal at some point. And then from there, I just kind of continued to continue to put out content. And then in May 2022, I put out content on business finance. I talked about financial statements, and it went extremely viral. And I gained over 10,000 followers in a matter of 48 hours, 72 hours. And it was kind of then off to the races. And then that kind of completely changed the whole trajectory, because at that point, I was doing well, I was growing. But it still seemed like it was going to be a long time before this really meant anything. And it was like overnight it was like, wait, I may have something here that I can use. And so that kind of changed the whole trajectory and I guess was kind of the beginning of the story, honestly.

Andres Sanchez  [00:10:23]:

That's awesome. And that's what I love about social media, is like, you're one tweet away, you're one reel away, you're one TikTok away from having this exponential growth. And I think Clinton might get me wrong on this, but I think he said that his first year, it was like 4000 followers, kind of like you. And then his second year was 260,000 followers gained. 260,000 followers gained. That's insane. That's huge growth. And I personally love Twitter as well. And I did it the same way that you did. I was strictly a consumer, not really somebody who used the platform other than in high school just to mess around, because that was the cool platform when I was in high school. But now I went back, started using it, and I love it. I love to tweet, I love to comment under people. I've made a lot of really good relationships on Twitter, just reaching out. Twitter has been a great way for me to get guests like yourself on the show. So I'm a huge fan of Twitter. I'm a huge fan of building a personal brand on social media. It's definitely something that I'm starting to work on. And really, this podcast is at the core of that. Let's talk personal finance. I know that's something you're passionate about. Maybe start and we'll let the conversation take us from there. If there's a listener that's listening right now that's looking to work on their personal finance, get ahead of the game. What advice would you have for them?

Kurtis  [00:11:59]:

Yeah, I mean, most people, they've not grown up in an environment where they even have the foundation. And for me, I'm grateful that I did grow up in that environment. I had parents who were very smart with their money, taught me a lot of the foundational things, had me at a young age, earning money, figuring out how the whole system worked. But unfortunately for a lot of people, they don't have that background. And so they get out into college, they get out into the real world, and they just really just are clueless when it comes to personal finances. And I will just say, for me, despite having that background, despite knowing all of those things, I made all the same mistakes that everyone else makes when they come out. And when it comes down to it, your personal growth has to happen through just getting in there and doing it. And so a lot of people beat themselves up because they make a lot of mistakes. But when it comes down to it, the basis of financial literacy, of building wealth, is go get a job, make good money, invest that money however you're going to invest it, and continue to grow your income, continue to invest, and then just let time do the rest of the work. And it's very similar to social media in that as people expect results immediately but it takes a long period of time to see that progress, to see those results. And I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is they're looking for the quick hit and that really is just the nature of our society today. And it's consistency over a long period of time that creates the results. And obviously you have to make the right decisions. But if you get that foundational stuff right, the rest of it will come in time.

Andres Sanchez  [00:14:05]:

Yeah, I really couldn't agree more and like I said, somebody who's passionate about personal finance, sometimes I feel like I'm pushing it on the people around me for the right reasons. And I still live at home, I'm working on moving out now. I love being at home. I have a great job. I'm just working on saving as much money and getting ahead. But I'm on the more aggressive side of things because I can be right now. And I try and do the 40 40 20, I invest 40% of my income, I save 40% of my income in CDs or a high yield savings account and then I make myself live off 20%. And that's been huge for me. It's helped me, one, understand that you really don't need all the money, that you can do things with a budget and you could still have a really good time. And then two, it's been interesting because when I want to do more things or I want to be able to spend more money, I find myself not dipping into my savings but trying to find other ways to up my income so that 20% goes further. And I think that has been huge for me because it's helped me because I used to run a few companies when I was in college. COVID kind of messed all that up. And then I took a little bit of a hiatus and then got my regular day job so I could start building things like this. And it's kind of like resparked my interest in side gigs and the side hustle life. So I owe a lot of credit to that. But I know it's really tough for people because it is a long game. People think that they should see the gains in the first month, two, three months and then you tell them that they should be looking at a 30 years out and that's usually where I lose people right there. It's like what do you mean I got to put money away now that I'm not going to see good results for for 30 years? What does that doesn't make any sense. And I'm like well, let's talk about compound interest and then you know how that conversation goes. But from your perspective, what have you seen? I know you said some people just don't grow up with the right framework around them. Maybe that's the answer. But what do you see as the main thing holding people back when it comes to personal finance?

Kurtis  [00:16:30]:

Yeah, I mean, I think one of it is knowledge, and it's the fear to have a conversation around money. Our society does not talk about money. Well, and I think that that's a big deal. But then I also think you just look at this consumerism nature that the US especially has, and I think what you're doing is really good because it resets your frame. Right? We need those things that break our frame to make us rethink things. And you living on the 20% is a great frame breaker. Right. It forces you to think differently about how to achieve your goals, which you just said was the case of trying to pick up that extra income. And so I think most people, unfortunately, they don't challenge themselves in that way. They don't seek out the other answers. They just are kind of going about their day, doing the minimum. And that's why I think the Twitter space, with everyone talking about personal finance, you know, you're impacting people because even though they may not impact, they may not respond, they may not talk to you, you're making them think about things in a way that they haven't thought about. And even me being a CFO for ten plus years, teaching personal finance to people locally as well as online, learning from people on Twitter, reading what people write has honestly made me rethink some things, made me think deeper about some things. Or maybe it maybe didn't even change the way I thought about it, but it just changed the language that I used around it. There's so much power in exposing yourself to that stuff, and I think just the majority of people are just kind of going through the motions, unfortunately.

Andres Sanchez  [00:18:29]:

Yeah, unfortunately. I would have to agree with you there as well. And again, touching back on Twitter, I personally became more exposed to personal finance. That's kind of how I even got here. I met Wolf and Wolf financial. He allowed me to come speak on some spaces with very little credibility, but it was something I was passionate about and thought I could go up and talk about. And he gave me my chance and let me come up weekly. And I started to make that relationship. And he introduced me to people like yourself with that one tweet. And I think that is like the power of Twitter. Like we said, a networking app. But I posted one clip of Wolf and I. He mentioned you guys in that clip where we were talking about growth. He tagged you guys below. You all saw it. And now I've booked you, Clint and Steve for my show, which is super exciting. And I just think that's such a cool I think that's why it's so underrated. And the more I got exposed to personal finance, or finance Twitter or FinTwit, whatever you want to call it. It was amazing to see the experts and the people that you get to interact with, or even the threads you get to read. Man, you learn so much and so many things get put into perspective that have really shaped me and helped me continue to grow because I'm always looking for an edge. I'm always looking for a way to save more, invest more. And I think Twitter has been a huge engine for me on just becoming much more savvy when it comes to my finance. But I want to pivot and highlight the newsletter that we talked about. It huge milestone just accomplished. What was the journey on building that? How did that kind of come to fruition? And let's maybe talk through that.

Kurtis  [00:20:20]:

Yeah, so I technically started my newsletter back in September ish of 2021. But when it really kind of took off and it took a life of its own, when I really actually started treating it as a serious thing, as a business, was when I mentioned about the growth in May of 2022. And I grew really quickly on Twitter, and I said, now it became a fear of Twitter is my only thing. And if Twitter is my only thing and something happens to Twitter, then I'm done. Like, I have nothing. So I decided to pivot and relaunch my newsletter. At that point. At that point, I had probably less than 100 subscribers to my previous newsletter because my previous one was just, hey, I'm just going to talk about whatever I want to talk about. If you want to go join me, you can. And it was more just for me, it wasn't anything that I was actually trying to provide value. And so because business finance stuff, financial statements, was something that hit really hard, I said, I'm going to pivot my newsletter, and I'm going to talk about business finances in this newsletter on a weekly basis. And so when I pivoted, I immediately started getting to the mode where I was like, promoting it every week. I was making it more of event. And that eventually turned now into kind of its own business, where I'm really if you look at my focus, at what I think is the main thing, while I've got a ton of followers on Twitter, the newsletter is where I see the real value. And if you look historically well, I say historically recent history with newsletters, there have been multiple multimillion dollar exits, big time exits out of newsletters because they've built hundreds of thousands an audience. And so when I looked at it, I said, honestly, the newsletter is what I love because I love the long form writing. And the newsletter is really an asset, a business into itself. And so in May 2022, I started treating it as that. And that growth started slowly. But then about, I guess, November of 2022, I switched to beehive really again doubled down on what I was doing with the newsletter, working with other people to help grow the newsletter. At that point I had 7000, I think 6000 Ish subscribers, which has led to today where I've got just past 20,000. And so that's kind of been the journey. I'd love to talk more about that, whatever questions you have, but that's kind of the overarching theme.

Andres Sanchez  [00:23:23]:

Yeah, no, that's great. And one of my favorite podcasts, my first million, I know Sam exited a huge newsletter. I've always been interested in starting a newsletter. I love to read. I just feel like I can't find the time to write. And honestly, I'm putting myself on blast here, but I'm not the best writer. It's definitely something that I lack in and something that I'm actively trying to get better at. But I know how sticky a newsletter community can be. And this is something that I talked about on a few episodes and then I talked about on a podcast that I have with two of my friends. I think that these kind of creator followings and creator brands are going to just take over because you have access to your ideal customer base at the click of a button. And I think you see that with huge companies that scale like Prime, Happy dad, all of these what we thought were funny, like, oh, look at this, YouTuber making a brand. And it's like, holy shit, it's in my publics now. It's in my walmart. It's everywhere. So where do you find the time to write when you have all this other stuff going on? Or has that just become like a non negotiable part of my business type of situation?

Kurtis  [00:24:46]:

Yeah, that was a little bit of my bet too, when you mentioned the kind of the personal brands. I think traditional media has become less trusted and less trusted, right?

Andres Sanchez  [00:24:59]:

Yeah.

Kurtis  [00:24:59]:

It's because people don't have a relationship and they don't know their motives. They know they have a profit motive, but they don't know their motives otherwise. But as a creator, while you may have a profit motive if you're not being true to what you actually believe, you can't develop a relationship with people and you want to attract those people and that's how you're really going to monetize. And so while you may have different motivations too, people feel like they know you at a personal level, which means they're going to trust your recommendation, trust your thing more than anything else. And so that's the power. And I think that's we're going to continue to see that. Going back to your question. For me, I had to sacrifice other things, meaning I still produce a lot on Twitter, but I had to cut back my Twitter time. For me, writing the newsletter is like a sacred Saturday morning habit that I have now. I had to tell my wife that we were going to do some stuff and I think it was like around lunchtime on Saturday. And I just said, listen, I can't have every week be a negotiation or conversation of whether I'm going to do this. I either need to have this time on Saturday morning or this time somewhere else. That can literally be a non negotiable. And it's not that she was trying to do anything bad. It was just like, I know if I don't set that boundary, for me, it gets squeezed out. And so for me, that Saturday morning became my thing of every Saturday morning I'm going to write my newsletter that I spend kind of probably so Monday I still have my day job, even though I'm kind of transitioning out. Monday during lunch, I do my editing. Tuesday evening I do a little bit more editing, really refine it to then go out on Thursday. And so I kind of base the whole rhythm of my week around the production and trying to get out really solid content on this newsletter. And if I didn't do that, actually, I'm taking off this week and I told my audience that it's the first time I've not written a newsletter in over a year. Wow. And it's been because I set that time aside and made it that priority.

Andres Sanchez  [00:27:30]:

Nice. Are you monetizing the newsletter? Is it strictly just grow, grow, grow and look for an exit? Maybe? Let's talk about that.

Kurtis  [00:27:41]:

Yeah. So I struggle with the idea of an exit on a newsletter because to me, that's my platform. And if I lose that, then it's like, honestly, I love the idea of it just because I'm a business guy. So I just love the economics and the thought behind it. But the way I monetize it right now is strictly through ads. So every week at the top of my newsletter, I have one ad. I've been selling those anywhere between 300 and $500 a week, which is not a ton of money. But it's pretty weird to think that I'm making money from a newsletter when a year ago I wouldn't even have known that was a model, a business model. But going forward, the plan is to continue to monetize with ads, potentially create a paid tier of the newsletter, which I have not figured out yet, the model of what that's going to look like. I've played around with some ideas just in my head, but I haven't kind of landed on what that's going to look like. And then I'm releasing courses in the coming months that are going to teach people basically how to just translate financials in their business, think about them strategically, kind of trying to just take the edge off of not people thinking they don't understand financials. And I'm going to monetize that through my newsletter as well. And so I think ultimately it's going to kind of be a multipronged approach to how I'm monetizing. But right now, absolutely, I am prioritizing for growth over monetization. So I'm investing, actually, in the last three weeks, started investing in paid ads and really trying to look at how to grow and pull levers that way. Because what you see is that the momentum that you get from growing quickly on a newsletter really compounds on itself, and it just kind of keeps moving quicker and quicker. So I'm trying to use that to my advantage because if I can get there, I can look and say, well, if I can continue to invest six months a year from now, I'm at over $100,000 just from ads, over $200,000 from subscriptions people paying for the paid portion. And so when you look at that, it's like, I'm not in the position where I have to make money from it right now. So I might as well reinvest everything I can into paid growth and really try and go back to what we talked about early, really try and make a business out of this that can be a foundation of everything that I launch off of.

Andres Sanchez  [00:30:41]:

Yeah, and the more I hear you talk about it, I feel like one of the great plays here is the scale of your fractional CFO business. Because you're educating all of these individuals who have clearly signed up for the newsletter because, A, they like business, they have a business, they're passionate about business, their mom and dad, their kids have business. I feel like the more trustworthy you become and the more people read your fractional CEO business could scale so fast just because it turns almost into like a consulting business, even if you go on to a 30 minutes call with the so is that one of the main goals here as you continue to grow this audience?

Kurtis  [00:31:25]:

Yeah, I've struggled with that, honestly, for a couple of reasons. One, even with a fractional CFO role, the way most of those firms and the way I plan on building my firm is, is you just charge a monthly rate, and with that monthly rate, they get a set deliverable. But in a sense, while you're not directly exchanging time for money, you're still, in an indirect sense, exchanging time for money. Because if you're not spending any time on that client, they have no reason to continue to pay you. And so while I do want to grow that, and I do need to grow that to keep my hand in kind of just what's going on day to day in a business. It actually provides me with content. So that's great, right? So I want to continue that. But I've struggled with is it a thing that I want to scale or is it a thing that I want to keep like a VIP high level service and then have the courses, have the newsletter, all of those things be kind of the business that I'm focusing on optimizing. And so I don't know that I have an answer right there. I've had a thought of, I can. Absolutely scale it. I think there's probably no problem with scaling it, but the question is, do I want to run a business? Because scaling it business from the sense of scaling it means I'm going to be supervising people. Scaling it means I'm going to have all of that. And so it's just a question of what do I want? And so, honestly, I'm trying to work through that right now. But that's what's great about the position and where I've got with the newsletter is it's provided me those questions that I now have to answer. I'm trying to not push myself to I've got to have an answer. I'm trying to just let it kind of take shape on its own and just kind of see what I'm enjoying doing and where I'm more passionate and then just kind of chase those things. Because if I can build it in that way, then I won't resent what I've built and I will kind of wake up every morning enjoying getting to do what I'm building.

Andres Sanchez  [00:33:48]:

Actually. Now, the more you talk through that, I like the idea more of using the courses and using maybe webinars and easier things to scale as your more mass audience approach and still being able to monetize that and then keeping your fractional CFO a high ticket VIP type of service. You saying that actually now to me makes way more sense. And the more I've gotten exposed to a bigger circle of high net worth earners and bigger entrepreneurs. It's funny when you tell them about a business, or like when I've talked about businesses, it's like, wait, how much are you charging? You're charging $500? No, there's no way to get rich charging $500. Charge $5,000. And in my head, I'm like, oh my God, there's no way I couldn't justify. I feel like people always sell themselves short. I'm not worth $5,000. And then you do it and it's like, whoa, I got this whole new client base who saw the $5,000 ticket and that actually fit their budget and they were interested. And then I went through with it and it went really well. So maybe I am worth $5,000. So I love that idea of courses and all that stuff as the mass media, mass way for you to go to market and then really VIP, high ticket, fractional CFO work. It sounds like a great business. Honestly.

Kurtis  [00:35:18]:

We break our own. It goes back to we're talking about the beginning is we have our frame of what is affordable, of what the pricing should be, and we look at everything through that frame. And the reality is there are people who have a completely different context, a completely different way of looking at things that have a completely different frame. And you have to raise your prices to be able to even see that frame. Right? Because if you don't, they're not going to look at your offer because they don't believe if you're valuing it at 500, and they're going to say, well, that's not going to be worth my time. But if you're valuing it at 5000, you may be delivering a very similar thing. But to them, that seems like, now that is something that is substantial, that pricing delivers the value, shows the value behind what you're doing or what you're exploring. And it's funny, I struggle with the pricing as well on my own business, but I'm coaching people on how to price in their business. It's different applying it for yourself than it is for anything else. And I'll recommend a book called Think Again by Adam Grant. If you've not read that book, love that book. It's an amazing book. And anyone that's not read that book should go read that, because our ability to rethink is directly correlated with the clarity and the level of our thought. Meaning the more we're able to rethink and redigest what we know or what we're learning to challenge that, the more high level our thinking then becomes. And so I think for me, when I read that book, it was kind of like I was already thinking that way, but it took me to the next level of how do I rethink this stuff?

Andres Sanchez  [00:37:18]:

Yeah, no, I highly recommend that book to anybody listening as well. It's amazing. And it's crazy how when you start to change the framework of the way you think and the way you kind of analyze things, the results that you see are amazing. And this conversation has been awesome. And if you're still listening with us, which I hope you are, I hope you're writing things down, I hope you're taking a lot of these nuggets and really keeping them so you can consume them, because I think this is really important and I appreciate you for just being so open and free. I don't think people understand somebody who's been a CFO for ten plus years now coming out, giving free content, free game is extremely valuable. Something I like to do at the tail end of all of these episodes is take us away from the business and just ask a super simple question, and you can answer it however you want. I've gotten answers from what they're eating for dinner at the end of the day, or I've gotten answers extremely elaborate about life and different things. But the question is simple what are you excited about in the near future?

Kurtis  [00:38:30]:

Yeah, well, for me, personally, I think what I'm excited about is I'm going through I mentioned that I'm making a transition on my job, and to me, what I'm excited about is leaning into all of those transitions. And I think oftentimes in life we shy away from those because we fear change, we fear things that are different. And I think that's all of our natural tendencies. And so what I'm excited about is I have a lot of transitions coming up, and I'm excited about leaning into those. I don't know if that's a self reflection esoteric little bit, but I'm trying to convince myself of that answer, right? If I should be leaning into those.

Andres Sanchez  [00:39:24]:

I'll say that, no, that's amazing. I'm the same way. Sometimes I need to say things out loud to kind of get myself going, and that's kind of how this podcast came. I've always loved podcasts. I've always consumed them, and I always wanted to start my own, but I was kind of dragging my feet a little bit, and then I finally just made the leap and said, I'm going to stop procrastinating and just do it. And I kept saying it out loud to people. I kept saying, hey, I'm going to start a podcast. Hey, I just want to let you know, like, I'm going to start a podcast. So the point that I was like, holy shit, if I don't do this, I look like a loser. I just told 20 different people that I'm going to do it. If I don't actually do it, then I look like I just made it all up. So I was like, all right, I got to do it. And now we're here. So I totally understand where you're coming from, from that perspective, and I just want to thank you for coming on the show. This episode has been amazing. I'm going to have all of your descriptions, your socials down below in the description. But people are really lazy, so maybe read out what your ad is on social media or your website to kind of capture those people.

Kurtis  [00:40:38]:

Yeah. My name is Kurtis Hanni. And start Kurtis with the K Hanni. H-A-N-N-I search for that on Twitter. That's where I'm going to be most active. That's where I'm going to be most responsive. And then if you're a newsletter person, you can just search frameworks and finance newsletter and you will find me. I'll be the first one up on there. So, yeah, I appreciate it was fun, conversation, enjoyed, kind of chatting through these things. And best of luck to you as you continue to kind of explore this podcast. I know I was doing a podcast for a year and a half, and I enjoyed it, but I kind of took a break because I wanted to have a very clear direction, and I didn't feel like I had a clear direction. And so I will be getting back into the medium soon. But best of luck to you on that.

Andres Sanchez  [00:41:36]:

Awesome. Thank you so much. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show. O giving the viewers this amazing knowledge, and I look forward to continuing our conversation offline and this relationship. So again, thanks for coming on.

Kurtis  [00:41:50]:

Absolutely. Thank you, man.