Ep. 24 Tobi Emonts-Holley: A CEO's Journey of Building a Fulfilling Life While Leading a Nonprofit

Andres Sanchez [00:00:00]:

Hey, Toby. How's it going? Thanks for coming on the show.

Tobi [00:00:03]:

Hey, Andres. Nice to meet you, and, glad to be here.

Andres Sanchez [00:00:07]:

Nice to meet you as well. How's your day started? I know we're in 2 different time zones.

Tobi [00:00:12]:

Yeah. For me, it's it's lunchtime now, but, yeah, a good start to the day. Kids on holiday. So it's always a bit of a more of a next, start to the day.

Andres Sanchez [00:00:22]:

That's awesome. Yeah. I I would say that I'm getting closer to breakfast over here, but I'm blessed to have a beautiful view behind me for today's episode. So I'm really excited to have you on. I'm really excited to dive into your journey. I did some homework and and you've done some pretty amazing things. The way that I like to do this show is I like to get right into things. So tell us who is Toby. Give us a little background on your journey to get to where you're at now.

Tobi [00:00:51]:

Sure. So, yeah, my name is is Toby. I come from Germany originally. I was Born a race in a town called Dusseldorf, which is in the western side of the city of the of the country. And I moved to Scotland Edinburgh in 2006. So spent more or less half my life, now now here in in in the UK. And I came to do a voluntary year. And after I did my kind of voluntary year, I, started university And throughout my whole time, yeah, I've worked for this this one company where I started off as a volunteer and then kind of worked my way into management and and senior management and I'm now, lucky to be the CEO of the company. So that's a nonprofit in the care sector. It's very meaningful and fulfilling work that I enjoy. I, yeah, while I was kind of working, I also went to university and studied economics, I thought this would be my kind of professional path and started working for the Scottish government for for a while, but It wasn't really, it wasn't for me. Academia wasn't for me. It was much more,

Andres Sanchez [00:02:02]:

I think, happy, in kind of

Tobi [00:02:04]:

a leadership management position. And helping kind of people excel in their in their roles. That was that was where I really, felt my kind of happy place. And at the same time, when I when I came here, as luck would have it on my 1st day of arriving, I met a person that's, I just fell in love with Melissa at the moment I saw her. And, so we were very blessed to to call on my wife now, and we've been together more or less since since I arrived in in Scotland, So it's been nearly 17 years now of of being together. And, we've got 6 amazing kids.

Andres Sanchez [00:02:40]:

That's amazing. And is she from Scotland, or did you both kind of just end up there?

Tobi [00:02:46]:

Yes. So she's from England originally. So her journey wasn't too far. But, yeah, she's she's also, I think since she was 12, she's been living in Scotland, so longer than me, we both wouldn't say we're both not Scottish, but we're it's kind of well adopted at home now.

Andres Sanchez [00:03:03]:

Awesome. And you mentioned something there. You left Germany at 19. I saw What was that experience like?

Tobi [00:03:10]:

Yeah. That was that was daunting. Obviously, at the time, most of the people that, I went to school with they some of the some of the, boys who kind of joined the military because that was still a requirement at the time and a lot other people would kind of start off with university or internships, but there was a a group of 3 of us who decided to do our, kind of civil service here, which was either military or that we decided to do it abroad one went to Peru, one went went to Pakistan, and it was me who went to Scotland. So the three of us were the the wild ones that kind of chose a completely different path to anybody else. And yes, daunting, but, obviously, the best decision of my life. But I think also just a great thing for anybody who wasn't or, for me, at least, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do in life, and being kind of plunged into a very different world and having to grow up really, really quickly was was definitely what I needed.

Andres Sanchez [00:04:11]:

That's awesome. And and then looking back from that, what would you say are some key takeaways from an experience like that? Cause I'm sure there may be people listening that left their hometown when they were younger, what are some of the positives and even what are some of the negatives from that experience?

Tobi [00:04:28]:

Yeah. I mean, negatives are are quite quickly to name. You're obviously leaving everything behind. Right? So all your friends, family, all of that is is a price that is a is a heavy price to pay. Because when you move away, all all those comforts, but also those relationships, they will take a strain. You will lose connections. You will lose friendships, quite quickly. Equally, I think, the people that stay with you throughout this journey, they are the the really the real kind of true friends, the ones that really will stick with you for life. So that's great. And there are some, some of our best friends that are still from that time. You know, we've we've moved away, but we've kind of stayed in context, so that's been great. But In terms of the positives, I mean, as I said, the the forcing function of being able or being being forced to grow up very, very quickly to adapt very quickly, challenging environments. For me, it was, as I said, in that, voluntary year, working in a care home. So with people with special needs, something I'd never experienced before. I was definitely afraid of of doing that. I'm wondering if I could do it or not. But I think by moving away and kind of removing that, the the option of a plan b offers, you know, just doing something else in your home city, but I was already away from home. So I had to just persevere and find it within myself to kind of overcome these obstacles. And and adapt and, get to, get used to new culture, get used to new language, meeting loads of new people, And I think with that, what it allows you is to discover yourself. Because what happens when you are growing up, in high school, you are a certain person. You're shaped by the people around you and throughout your teenage years. You make, you know, you you just stupid stuff and whatever. That stays with you. Everybody knows what you've done. And, you know, you kind of become a certain figure, but moving away for easier from that. So you can just say, okay. Nobody knows me. I can just discover who I want to be, and that is so free. And I'm I'm very grateful for that.

Andres Sanchez [00:06:33]:

That's amazing. And I I I totally agree. I think it's it's super cool to be able to go start kind of fresh, somewhere new. I haven't had the ability to do that, but me and my significant other plan on traveling and and potentially living somewhere different, for a period of time just to enjoy something like that. You work for a nonprofit. You said it wasn't your expectation to stay there for What is it now? How many years have you been working there? 17?

Tobi [00:07:04]:

17 years tomorrow, actually.

Andres Sanchez [00:07:06]:

17 years tomorrow. That that's absolutely amazing. Like, take me through that journey. Like, had you even start at that company? And then what was it like when you realized, oh, Man, I think I think I'm gonna be staying here long term.

Tobi [00:07:21]:

Yeah. It was work that was daunting for me because I had no experience with it whatsoever. But equally, whenever I feel there's something that's like daunting or you're afraid of, it's probably where you should lean into. Right? It's that comfort zone that's that's trying to keep you back. That's trying to keep you small. And I kind of felt, you know, what? I've I've lived a life as an only child in the city. Not really caring fathers or needing to care for others. It was always just like, you know, being my parents. But I knew there was more to life. I knew there was, you know, and I had the ability. I was young enough to, to give back to some degree because I was I was very fortunate. So there was some there was a voice to me saying, do you know what? Why don't you try this? Why don't you just try and be there for others rather than just focusing on yourself. So that was definitely a large motivator. And then over the time, I mean, I definitely had thoughts and we had, you know, discussed. Is this for us? Should we move away? Should we do different job? And as I said, in terms of me, professionally with yeah, definitely anticipated either working for the government or academia or consultancy work or something like that. That was definitely on the cards. But I realized that the work that I was doing was actually so meaningful and was impacting lives directly. And it was providing for my family I didn't know why I would leave. Like, the only reason, really, was a higher paycheck, and I got those offers, but I just thought, look, I'm just gonna give up the quality of life and the time that I have with my family just to drive a different car. And that wasn't a choice I was willing to make.

Andres Sanchez [00:08:51]:

Yeah. And I I think you might have answered one of the questions I had down here, but I saw one of your tweets and it said, why I said no to a $250,000 job offer? Why? I mean, you might have just answered it there, but maybe add a little context to that.

Tobi [00:09:06]:

Yeah. That was an offer that came in about 2 years ago, somebody that I met, through a kind of, I was doing I was doing a, a certification to, to become a coach which I did to, basically become a better, a better leader within my company. I thought I had personally received coaching, and I've realized that that can be something really, really powerful to help, help your team reach their potential. So, within that course, I mean, I met somebody, a great person, and they just said that after one of our kind of, training calls, could you just stay on and and let's have a chat? And he was like, look, you know, be I've got this opportunity here, would you like to to jump jump on board? And, obviously, that was like, wow. Okay. This is you know, like four times more than, you know, I was ever hoping to be making, and and, you know, took it back home. We discussed it, but I was actually really curious to see that the discussion then led into, like, okay, what does that mean? Like, it would have meant moving to the US obviously, different city, warmer climate, which seemed like great. You know, Scotland isn't known for its warm, nice climate. But it was actually going through that that, that experience of actually somebody saying, you know, you have a ticket now. You can leave. If you wanted to, you can have this other life. And that made us really reflective of, like, okay, what do we have? Not just that, but also, like, what is the trajectory in terms of where are we? Where does that lead us? Where does that lead our kids? And where would these other life leaders? And the biggest thing would have been I wouldn't be present for my family. Like, yes, we could have a higher standard of life. Yes. It would have been a great climate and all of that. But the price to pay to not be there for a family and especially, you know, with 6 kids that I didn't wanna be a dad that was away from them. And that made it quite quickly quite clear. And and, you know, inversely helping us actually realizing how much we enjoyed and and loved what we were.

Andres Sanchez [00:11:04]:

Awesome. And you stepped into a CEO role at thirty years old. A question I had written down here was CEO and family man. If people follow you online, they they they realize that. How do you balance that?

Tobi [00:11:19]:

It's it's obviously not an easy balance, to make. I think what what I found for myself is always the I'm always asking myself the the question of, like, obviously, what's most important to me? And yes, family is the number one thing, but also the work we do is incredibly meaningful. So those two answers really lead me or led me to design my working day in my life around the things that I hope most dear So, I feel I'm very fortunate in that. The Edinburgh is in a very big city, in comparatively to other cities. So Everything is kind of in driving distance. So what it might mean is I will, on in the afternoon, I will take my kids, to a sports practice and I was sitting in the car now working the car rather than just, working from a home office or whatever, being very, very fortunate to be able to do that. So emails 4 PM. I'll sit in the car park, range rizzling on the on the car, but that's that's okay. And then being there for the for the family in the evening, and being there for them in the morning when they get up, but then paying the paying the price of saying, I work on weekends and then work in the evenings. So when the kids go to bed, I still put in an hour, hour a half, whatever is needed. And that might not sound very healthy in terms of constantly working, but I don't like that. I think it's really about work life integration and saying rather than saying, I'm working between 9:5 or 9:6, whatever it would be. And then just being fully present for them, I wanna also be present for my children during the day. So we have as much contact time as possible. I'm there for them for whatever's going on, I'm I'm there, and they can speak to me. And if it means that I'm losing a bit of sleep or I don't watch Netflix, but I am doing work That's a that's a price worth paying.

Andres Sanchez [00:13:06]:

Yeah. And I mean, I I love that. Another tweet that I saw that you put out was non profits are arguably harder to run than a normal company. I'd love to get a little bit of a a deeper dive and know what your day to day looks like at the nonprofit, what the CEO of a nonprofit, looks like.

Tobi [00:13:26]:

So I think Once you're in that in that kind of C suite as a kind of the corporate language will will will determine once you're in that, I don't think it makes much of a difference whether you are for in a for profit or nonprofit company. You're doing all the same things. Right? So it's, you know, you're tiering to regulation. There's loads of HR. There's finance, you know, strategy operational that it will be the same more or less for any company, especially if they're the same size as a for profit company. What makes the nonprofit that much harder is, especially depending on how you're funded, but you're always fighting for funding. So you are not necessarily able to just provide a better product or market yourself to a certain degree where you're suddenly increasing sales. So I cannot just bring out a new product in in a social care scenario that doesn't work. We are providing support for people. And the way you're paid in in our line of work is your, through kind of government funding, but that isn't always forthcoming. That is quite hard to negotiate, and it's in a in a funny way. You're kind providing a service and the purchaser tells you how much they will pay for it, which makes it very, very hard. So rather than you're just focusing on the quality and your sales, you also need to work on diversifying income, keeping costs very, very low, which, again, it's the same for any company. But the that kind of struggles in terms of making sure that you get paid enough, are very different. And then the other thing is, obviously, with being with us being a non profit, this scrutiny in terms of regulations and government oversight are that much higher. So you need

Andres Sanchez [00:15:04]:

to make sure you adhere

Tobi [00:15:05]:

to that, and you've got more paperwork attached to it as well. So you kind of you always take in an extra step with everything you do compared to a full profit, which makes it a bit harder. But I would say in terms of a a day to day scenario, it is very much the same as any, any CEO and any company.

Andres Sanchez [00:15:24]:

And then as a CEO, being responsible for so many people and and being responsible to to to lead the ship and and point it in the right direction. How is that? 1, how has that affected you mentally? And and what have you gained from that? Over over the period of being the CEO.

Tobi [00:15:45]:

Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a very heavy burden, to carry. I think I feel very fortunate in that I've literally worked my way from the bottom up as coming, you know, I came on as a volunteer. And then kind of kind of grew with the company. So the company was much, much smaller when I started. I would say we're probably a quote of the size and equally, I felt that while the company was growing, I was also growing as a person and my my understanding of business, my understanding of leadership was growing, alongside the company, I was able to to gain that much more experience and to really have an in-depth understanding of most of these aspects of what what we do and all the different variety of of support that we offer. So that's been that's been great. But the the burden of being responsible for so many people, is one that will keep you up at night. It's one that will make you work that much harder because, you know, you're affecting people's livelihoods, and as I said, because of our work way supporting, adults with with special needs. That's also a very heavy burden where you need to make sure the the quality of care is high and that you are, profitable enough to be surviving because you are literally providing homes and workshops for people that are dependent on it. It's not just that people can get a new job, especially the people that we, we support. So that's that's something that that is on our minds. But although this is being a heavy burden, it is also the biggest fuel to to your fire, right, because you know that you're doing good work. You know what you're providing. You're providing a good service. You're helping people progress. And also if you're looking at the kind of history of of the line of work that we are in, It used to come to people with, you know, special needs for often housed in in massive hospitals shut away from society. And, you know, that that was that. That was their lives. And now we're trying to create a kind of integrated society where, It is totally normal for somebody with learned disabilities to jump on a bus and go to the city, and being kind of partened at the at the forefront of of helping people really achieve their full potential is is incredibly rewarding.

Andres Sanchez [00:18:04]:

Yeah. I mean, that's it's just so powerful and and a really I love that you've dedicated your life to this amazing work. You you've this is I mean, I think other large CEOs have said this, but you had the unique experience where you were able to go through and work your way through the company all the way up to that CEO role. How impactful do you think that was to your performance and to the way that you view the company as a whole instead of just going in and taking the CEO role right when you joined that company?

Tobi [00:18:40]:

Massively, massively important. Is I think for 22 reasons. Number 1, you understand. Or for me, I understand to a certain degree what it's like to be a volunteer here. I've done that. I understand what it means to be somebody working on the ground in in the workshops. I've done that. I know what it's what it means to be one of the mid level managers and ease of I've done I've done all of these elements. So when somebody comes and tells me about the experience, I have a certain level of knowledge empathy that comes with that. So, that is just like that's absolutely massive.

Andres Sanchez [00:19:17]:

Awesome. And and we've been talking about that CEO roll out your job at the company, but you also run a newsletter and newsletters are becoming so popular. A lot of people have made the conscious choice to try and and do their best to take their platforms that they built on social medias and take them to a newsletter as kind of insurance to be able to own kind of your following instead of being susceptible to these, big social media companies blocking you, removing you, all of these crazy things. So How has it been to start a newsletter? What is the newsletter really about for people listening? And where can they go and subscribe to it?

Tobi [00:20:01]:

Yeah. So, last one quickly first up. I mean, on my, kind of social media pages, the the link is there. The the website is called forgingbalance.com. And on that, you will, you will be able to sign up. It's it's a sub stack newsletter. I started it, beginning of 2021. And it was really, I think, for the first half year, I had 13 subscribers. It was, it was my parents and friends that I made sign up for that. I'm not sure much they read of it or not. It was really, I mean, on the one hand, it actually ended up, I think, being a lot of self therapy of just writing about stuff and then and then putting that out there. But the aim at the beginning was to find people that were kind of like minded to what I was thinking and find people that were trying to, really kind of forge the best version of themselves, especially if it was other debts, other CEOs, other people that were kind of in a similar kind of situation to me, I've been very, very fortunate that writing online has exactly enabled that. I found amazing people, and other moms that that are doing fantastic jobs and really just being able to connect with those amazing people and learn from them and and talk to them. So that's it's it's really it's Been much better than I thought it would be. So that's one. And the newsletter really isn't very much, I think, in terms of them, not I'm not selling anything. I'm not providing, any kind of teaching within it as much as it is a reflection of what's going on in our world. And trying to reflect on how it's like to have that trying to strike that balance between, having the 9 to 5 being a CEO, having a large family and trying to have the kind of best, marriage I can, I can have with my wife, but also that that third factor, which I find a lot of, dads actually struggling with, which is what is it about? Like, what what do you want? Because, you know, obviously, live family life and and work is is paramount, but there's an element where people still wanna pursue their own goals, whether that's fitness or they wanna achieve something, or they wanna write a book or whatever it is, But often that is like, you know, that's just shelved and nobody really pursues that, but that's the bit that gets you really frustrated, I think, over, over time. And you need to kind of find a way to pursue that. For me, which is that that is very much a kind of normally fitness, fitness driven goals and and seeking adventures to a certain degree. And that's what I write about. It's just like, you know, these three areas in my life, some insights, and just, you know, know, when I when I research something, I'll find something new that I found to be helpful. I share that with the audience. And it's it's great to get the feedback back. Getting emails coming back saying, oh, this was really helpful or can you dive more into that? So it's been really good to kind of also steer me to know what people find interesting and what they don't find interesting. So that very personal note of just saying how stuff is, the good and the bad, that's that seems to be resonating.

Andres Sanchez [00:23:03]:

Yeah. And and I I I love I know some people try and use their newsletters as, like, a sales tactic, a way to push like, offers. So I I think it's super cool that you just utilize it as a way to kind of vent to the world and allow that trickle down into other people's lives who are in similar situations and really just giving them the ability to be at peace knowing there's other people kind of going through the same type of situation. When you click on the newsletter, it says at the top that you're a coach for high performing entrepreneurs and executives. Maybe walk through that, and how you do coach and and help other executives and entrepreneurs.

Tobi [00:23:44]:

Yeah. I mean, the, as I said, the the main thing for for the coaching I was doing has really helped me with my 9 to 5 and the people that I work with So, try and help them achieve their potential and kind of challenge myself to be able to be the best I guess, manager, but, you know, co, co leader with them, to to achieve the best for our for our work. And the other thing that I found, which I found incredibly rewarding is that I've connected with a lot of, other, people in this in the same kind of work that I'm doing so people that run, similar organizations to myself. That's one I've been very fortunate to work with, who's a judge in South Africa, for instance, and other, dads that I've met on Twitter and, just kind of have that rapport and being able to just kind of when they come get in touch with me to say, look, you know, I am struggling with this kind of work life balance. So I'm struggling with finding time for myself and to sit down and actually work out. Okay. How do how do how do I try and do that and and listen to them and see how they what they're struggling with and how we can, maybe find ways to say, okay. Let's make sure that we understand the purpose, that you're trying to trying to forge what is it that's a big vision that you're having crystallizing that vision and then crystallizing the goals and habits and the systems that will support that. So it's very much, the stuff that I talk on talk about on Twitter, And but then then kind of personalized to just go through to kind of one on one experience, and help them that way.

Andres Sanchez [00:25:18]:

Amazing. And then just talking to you throughout this 25 minutes here, you seem like a very disciplined person. Like you said, your kind of things that you enjoy our fitness health. I saw you, like, you also mentioned adventure I saw some amazing pictures of you and your kids hiking and and walking. How important is it to get out and go for a walk? How important is it for people working remote to get out of their desk and go move around? Because just looking through your tweets and things like that seems like something you're passionate about.

Tobi [00:25:52]:

Passionate and very fortunate as well, I would say, because we live right on the edge of the of the hills here. So the pictures you're seeing is very close to home. So that's that's great. I mean, it's wonderful. Oh, amazing. And, actually, I was, I went back home, over the weekend, to see my dad and the city that I grew up in, which is a very similar size, to Edinburgh, but it's just it's a concrete jungle more or less. That's a river that flows through it. And I just found it so oppressive in a way. Like, even if I was working there and going for a walk, but it just it's just concrete left, right, and center. And I've realized, unfortunately, I am, to be here and seek that green space, and that is definitely, an absolute passion. I mean, the the best the the best mornings are the ones getting up early and and going full run-in the hills when the sun is coming up. I mean, that is just that is amazing. It's a bit harder when it wintertime here because it's always dark and you're running over ice. So that's not as much fun, but equally once you get it done, I found that for me, getting up early and and doing a morning workout, which frankly is also the only time I have normally just for myself. So that makes it quite quite important. But having that time in the morning where, you know, you could listen to an audio book or podcast and, you know, a lot of times, there will be kind of business related or self improvement to just kind of figure out, okay, you know, what are elements that can improve on my life and and then kind of have that have that outlet of becoming fitter and and and healthier, through the workout in the morning. It just sets you up right for the day. It's just such a great habit to get into. And not, you know, early morning isn't for everybody. For some people who have said night, but I found that and speaking to other dads and having that kind of 30 to 60 minutes of, just really focusing on becoming a better version of yourself is is something that will carry you for the rest of the day.

Andres Sanchez [00:27:44]:

Yeah. I I totally agree. I wish I wish I was better at getting up in the morning and and getting stuff done because I agree. It it is hard to get it done at the end of the day, and it's something that I'm I'm working on right now for myself as I go out. And, I mean, I I work remote, and I think it's hard sometimes to get yourself out of that loop of work, eat sleep, work, eat sleep. So it's been something that I've started to work on, and the podcast has been a huge reason for that because I meet with so many amazing people like yourself. And it's it's almost undeniable at this point that these habits are ingrained in successful people like yourself because the sample size at this point is big for me. And it's it's it's very common. So it it's great to it's great to to hear your perspective on it, and it's definitely something that I've made public on the podcast that I'm working on for myself personally. So It it's it's amazing. And the your story has been amazing. Like, getting to hear all of these different, perspectives and the way that you navigated your career and and stuck with what really mattered to you and didn't go chase those dollars. I would say, that's not not very American. I feel like here in America, everybody is just money hungry going for that next paycheck, going for the next the next, raise job promotion. So I would say maybe a good word is refreshing to hear the way that you think about it and the way that you've kind of navigated your career and look how successful you've been, look at the relationships you've created at home. So super powerful and and really just, congratulations to you for building such a successful life so far.

Tobi [00:29:33]:

Yeah. Thank you so much. I mean, that's that's really, really nice to hear. I guess when when you were speaking, the the the thing that came to my mind is I know it's different in Europe compared to the US because the thing for in the US, the strain on making more money is also that much harder when you have children because you wanna provide college, medical insurance, and all of that. So we're very fortunate that we don't have that. And I think if I lived in the US, we wouldn't be having discussion necessarily in the same in the same format because I might be chasing those dollars much more. But I do think there's there's an element where the question is you know, what are you trading off? So I know that I know how to work hard. I know how to grind. So if I needed to make more money when the kids out of the house to secure my retirement. I know I can do it. I can work 2 jobs if I needed to. Like, I've done that more or less for my life, you know, being a full time student and working full time and having a family kind of learn to to to manage that. It's not always easy, but it's possible. But I'd rather I'd rather, I guess, push myself later on a bit more and have the time now with my children when they're young and they wanna have a relationship with me because the other way around doesn't work. Right? So making all the money now and then saying, guys, I'm free now. And they're being 16, 17, 18. They're like, well, we don't care. We don't wanna be with you now. Again, that's I think it's just very fortunate to have, to be aware of that, and also have have my wife being really, really clear. Like, you know, what is the kind of family that we wanna have, which is a family that's based on, having adventures together and and making memories rather than, drowning in possessions.

Andres Sanchez [00:31:09]:

Yeah. I mean, amazing. Like, these are things that I envy, and I hope that as I get older and I look to start a family that I'm able to achieve and and and have a life like this because it's it seems amazing. Something I like to do at the end of every episode is I ask the same question to every guest, and it's it's a very simple question. And I've had answers from every point of view, and it's Toby, what are what are you excited about in the near future?

Tobi [00:31:40]:

I'm excited about the continuous growth really in the relationship that I'll have with with my family. I think that's that's the most exciting thing to see where the different characters of my kids how they're gonna develop and and what that means as a as a family, how that will shape the way that we interact. And then through that, what are the adventures that we're gonna go on, whether that's travel or hobbies they get into that we might align with and, you know, I might be able to to share very special moments with them that way. That's something I'm I'm really excited for.

Andres Sanchez [00:32:14]:

Amazing. What a what a great way to wrap us up here. I absolutely love that response. Working people find you. I want anybody listening who's been interested to be able to go connect with you and and chat with you and follow your journey. Where's the best place for them to do that?

Tobi [00:32:29]:

Best place will probably just Twitter and Instagram. And the the handle is Toby with an I. So t o b I, underscore Emons, which is e m o n t s.

Andres Sanchez [00:32:41]:

Awesome. And for anybody listening, that will all be listed in the description below. Toby, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. I'm so excited to put this episode out. Let people hear more about your story. And continue to stay connected and follow you on your journey.

Tobi [00:32:59]:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been it's been a really pleasure.

Andres Sanchez [00:33:03]:

Awesome.